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INTERVIEWS

KIEV INTERVIEWS 9- ARTEM

4/3/2018

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ARTEM, 38, works in the private sector as a marketing manager of the NGO, InitiativeE +. He played a significant role in the revolution, communicating and organising with other countries in Europe. 
 
ARTEM- I joined Maidan from the early days. It was a drive to demonstrate my intention to be part of the European vector. We hated Yanukovych's approach of going to Russia. We felt let down because we wanted to join the European nation of families. That’s why we supported the first street protests. When it turned into a well-organised protest on Maidan Square, we decided to help people from out of town. We brought them in our cars, delivered food and drink and provided medicine. On 19th January, things started to turn hostile. Tires were burnt and the clashes between protestors and the police broke out. I met with some guys and we arranged a start up to unite us. We organised cars and made agreements with central churches. First a Lutheran church, then an orthodox church and finally 2 catholic churches. All these churches had well prepared facilities; warm rooms, blankets and mattresses. Doctors agreed to be there overnight to help the wounded. We brought ten mobile phone and posted adverts around Maidan, telling anyone who was sick or injured that we had shelter. We delivered more than 270 people to these locations at the start of Maidan, where they were treated and allowed time to relax. But many fled within 3 days, sick of Maidan.
 
Our activities expanded a lot, and by the end of February we had many supporters, and 45 people working with us. We didn’t use social media, as what we were doing was illegal, and best kept undercover. Our contact centre had created a database of all those that required treatment. We were approached by several foreign embassies and contacts including Czech Republic, Poland and Germany. Their diplomats suggested medical assistance. They made contact with activists to be treated abroad, whilst we instigated a large operation with military planes, to transport the activists to hospitals in these countries, as well as Canada, the USA and the UK. Over 4 weeks, about 275 people were transported out of Ukraine. After that we decided to create an NGO: E +. The first part of the project was to initiate the database, and we received support from the Ukraine diaspora. They gave us a grant whilst the Council of Europe and People in Need provided us with a template for the database. We started to travel through major Ukrainian towns for 3 month in 2014 and met with over 700 people. The Lutheran church that opened its doors for us during Maidan, served as our office, free of charge. We created this database and connected with the ministry of internal affairs and the ministry of healthcare. For 2 years we monitored the granting of social security numbers and payments of those injured in Maidan.
 
E + is a big NGO that helps the children of parents killed in the war. We welcome children from Donetsk region and take them to the mountain region to help them de-Russianize and  introduce soft Ukraninisation. We also run a project for financial support for widows of soldiers killed in the war and those who have become disabled. Our volunteers are also involved in psychological rehabilitation. We realised our own initiatives and became engaged with civic society. We are supporting and pushing the country ahead, as our government is still weak from transitioning. Our organisation came about in May and we started to advocate the interest of our participants. When the experts who were not politicians liked to show their ideas, we created the map of reform. We collected the biggest organisations in one place and developed our mechanisms of communications.
 
DOM- Was the revolution successful?
 
​A-Of course! It was a huge success for the country. We had much more support from Europe and the integration of NATO. But many were upset because we are in a worse economic state and with no clear sight to join the EU. But most of us realise that with more transparency, we will have success. Maidan is the start of a long story and it’s the start of a shift for the young for a better future. Now you can easily join a civic sector thanks to European funding. It plays a significant role in policymaking decision. Civic society is now a new source of potential to join the state service. It’s a good thing from Maidan. We started de-communisation. We have taken down many Lenin and Stalin statues and its now illegal to use communist era names. It’s a big step. In the last three years, there have been thousands of new NGO’s showing the young true potential. Reformation package involves more young people. Although we are in economic hardship, we are headed in the right direction. None of the deaths were for nothing. If we stick to our paths and work harder, the country will look totally different in the next 10 years.
 
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KIEV INTERVIEWS 8- VALERIE

4/3/2018

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Valerie, 24, is a PHD student, studying social psychology. She is doing her research on the refugees from Donbas.


VALERIE: I am doing research into migrants from Donbas who have settled into other parts of Ukraine. We are not very tolerant in Ukraine and this partly comes from the name of the revolution. It’s called the Revolution of Dignity, and so those who supported the revolution have this set idea on what dignity is. However since many people from Donbas don’t support the revolution, in the supporter’s eyes, those people are not dignified. We have this division in Ukraine at the moment. Central and Western Ukraine whilst Eastern Ukraine speaks Russian. East doesn’t have this strong  Ukrainian identity, they just seem themselves as people from Donbas and Luhansk. For thousands of years, the rest of Ukraine has had very strong connections with Hungary, Poland, Austria, and a sense of being Western. Not many people lived in the Donbas area until the beginning of the 20th century when coal mining was discovered and people from all over the  Russian empire began to move there. During the Russian revolution people from Kiev and central Ukraine fought for independence, whilst Donbas was a self declared republic supported by the Bolsheviks and the Soviet Union. Donbas became known as a strong Bolshevik area and were very much supported by the Soviet Union. The population went up to 10 million during Soviet era. But when it collapsed, so did Donbas as the rest of Ukraine didn’t have such a need for industrialisation. In the 90’s it became a very depressive region, as the coalmines closed and these 10 million people lost their jobs.
 
During the Orange revolution tensions between East and West heightened. Donbas supported Yanukovych whilst the Pro West supported Yushchenko. The rest of Ukraine protested when Yanukovych won, saying it was fake, however when he was ousted, the people from Donbas felt defeated that their party lost and wanted revenge.
 
DOM- Do many people in Kiev know about the history of Donbas?
 
V- Maybe some. But it is mainly because I am researching it!
 
D- So you can understand the mind-set of the Donetsk Independence Party?
 
V- Yes but there is strong Russian propaganda. In Donetsk the strongest element of propaganda was about language. My friend from Donetsk didn’t study the Ukrainian language at all. All of his lessons were in Russian. Russians threatened the people in Donbas, saying the Ukrainian forces were going to come and force them to speak Ukrainian. They were scared their language and identity was going to be taken away.
 
I went to Donbas and spoke to people.  They say there was not this tension between Ukrainian and Russian at the beginning of the 20th century. (?) They were very scared that they were going to get killed for speaking Russian.
 
D- How did they feel about the revolution?
 
V- There were people in Donetsk who supported the revolution but many people supported the government because Yanukovych was from Donbas. That was pretty their only reason for supporting him though. And of course they had seen Russian propaganda and news.
 
The revolution ended in February and in March there was this action in Crimea. People in Crimea were very happy about being part of Russia, because they had become scared the Russian media which said that Fascists had taken over in Kiev. They called it the fascist revolution, and said that fascists would come to take over Crimea. So when the Russians took over in 2014, they were actually happy about it. But now they are not. There is no electricity, no food and oil prices are very high.
 
Donbas also had a referendum for independence, and even intelligent people voted for it, because they had hear about all these happy people in Crimea. They didn’t think about the future. But Russia wanted Crimea for strategic reasons, and didn’t want Donbas as it’s a poor area. Now people have changed their minds due to the war, which was totally unexpected. Following it there have been three waves of migration out of Donbas:

  1. In summer 2014, shortly after the start of the war. Heavy bombing forced people to leave. Some rich companies came, but most people don’t have anything. Some people were forced to stay as they didn’t have the money to leave, and simply hoped the war would end soon.
  2. Late autumn/ winter 2014/2015, people realised the war wasn’t ending so they should leave not to be killed.
  3. Summer/autumn 2015 some families came. Many people could not stay in other cities because they had no job or home so they had to go back. But people back in Donetsk did not accept them because they people who had stayed didn’t like them for leaving. Now many people accepted this war and adapted to living there. [like Olexsandras uncles]
 
There were not actually many people supporting this independence movement. Most people just wanted to live and get along with their daily lives, and not be involved in this politics. Now one side blames another for destroying the city and killing people.
 
D- Are the youth in Kiev affected by the war in many ways?
 
V- Of course. Probably in each school class there are children from Donbas. There is also Ukrainian propaganda. When the war began there was a call out for young men to join the army. So many families are affected. My father is a policeman and he was forced to go to Donbas. He had an order to go from June 1st for two months, in order to help evacuate the displaced children, and make sure they were taken to Ukraine and not Russia.
 
There are also a lot of migrants in Kiev. You can see them everywhere. It was difficult for a lot of Donbas locals to rent an apartment in Kiev. Lots of people don’t want them. Vie seen signs saying “Not for Donbas locals” because people are afraid of them. They are seen as others, not them.
 
D- If they spoke Ukrainian would that still be the case?
 
V- Not so much. Everyone in Kiev speaks Russian, so language is not seen as a case of identity here. But in Donbas it was, and used as a means of propaganda.
 
D- How were you involved in the revolution?
 
V- All the students had Maidan as the means of our future. My friends, my tutors and me were all helping people with pyscologocial issues, talking to them and trying to calm them down. I wasn’t going to Maidan everyday. It was cold and it frightened me. But my friends, especially the boys were going everyday. The revolution was a good idea but id did not offer a resolution. We should protest against something, but rather for something. There was not a clear programme for us, so now we have the same government. We don’t have many new politicians and our current president is as corrupt as the last one. I understand that we will not become part of EU  because we are a big country with many problems and we need to sort them out. I want a good western orientated politician to lead us into Europe. I believe something good will happen. As we understand the war isn’t a matter of Ukrainians. It’s a war between the global East and the global West, and what we should be thinking about is what to do with Donbas when this war ends.
 
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KIEV INTERVIEWS 7- LEONID

16/2/2018

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​LEONID, 30, is a former soldier turned pizza restaurant owner. His restaurant employs Ukrainian veterans, and the interior is decorated with badges of Ukrainian armed forces, a giant model gun, and most powerfully of all, a map of Ukraine made out of bullets. The areas of Donbas and Crimea were made out of used bullets. He is clearly a respected figure in the community, and several people interrupt our interview to talk to him, all big, tough army guys.  
 

DOM- After the war, why did you set up this restaurant?
 
LEONID- Before the war I made pizza, after I came back an ex soldier called me and said he wants to help veterans and their families. We worked helping their families, and I realised working with veterans was very comfortable. We had more in common than with civilians. Many did not want to go back to their old jobs so we set up a business to employ veterans and allow them to come together. I studied business management and eventually sot someone to invest. We set up and now we have 13 veterans employed in this restaurant. I brand grew and now we employ over 30. I employed 2 psychologists to help with the mentality of the veterans too.
 
D- You fought on the front lines?
 
L- Yes, I was a machine gunner. I finished military school in 2004 and was in the army for 1 year. But then I made pizza for 6 years.
 
D- So why did you go to fight?
L- Because it is my duty. When war started in East Ukraine, I couldn’t just watch TV and not out to fight. This is my country. When the Russians took Crimea it was fucking shit.
 
D- So many of the military had civilian jobs?
 
L_ Yes of course. I think about half.
 
D- How did you adapt?
 
L- We had one common enemy so we became like brothers.
 
D- Were you involved in EuroMaidan?
 
L- Yes I was there. I protested and helped other guys with medicals and food. But it wasn’t the same feeling as being on the front line.
 
D- Would there be war without the revolution?
 
L- Not the right question. Revolution was because of corruption and poverty. Russia always wanted Crimea. Even without the revolution, the war would of happened sooner or later. We have one enemy, Russia. They want to see Europe and NATO on their borders. They want to bring back the Soviet Union, but we want to be independent.
 
D- What about independent Donetsk?
 
L- They want to be part of Russia. How can they defend against us? We were kicking their arses until Russia sent military and weapons to them. We had a task to finish this war in 2014.
 
D- How much longer will the war go on for?
 
L- I don’t know. I don’t know.. Russia has their own voice in Donbas. There will be no peacekeeping in Donbas. If there is, the war will finish. They don’t want to finish the war. Russia likes to have this difficult situation in Ukraine.
 
D- Do you think there are any Ukrainians in support of Russia?
 
L- Yes of course. Russia has very powerful propaganda machine. They have T.V shows, news. People don’t know the truth. They say we are Nazis. We have a few radical Nazi guys, but they are very small and we don’t support them. But Russia shows that everyone in East Ukraine is fighting Nazis or fascists.
 
D- Would you describe the divide in Ukraine as Pro Europe vs. Pro Russia, or Pro Ukraine vs. Pro Russia?
 
L- I think it is both. Ukraine fights not only for Europe but we fight for independence in all sense. We want to decide. The lifestyle in Europe is much cooler than in Russia. I was in Poland, and I liked it very much. There’s not so much corruption. We want to live like your living.
 
D- Do you think its possible with this government?
 
L- No. But its what we have now. All government is so corrupt. We can’t have changes for the next two or three years.
 
D- Is there propaganda on this side?
 
L- We don’t have such propaganda. We don’t know how to do this. We just have anti-propaganda, and our news just says where Russia lies.
 
 
D- Will Ukraine be united again?
 
L- Yes of course. We need change of government through the change of people’s mentality. 
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KIEV INTERVIEWS 6-KATARYNA

16/2/2018

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​

KATARYNA, 26, was one of the first reporters at Maidan, following the events from the start. She now has a rather large social media following, which all began during Maidan, as she regularly posted updates in English to her Twitter account. 

KATARYNA- I’m originally from Western Ukraine and have lived in Hungary and Poland. But I came back to Ukraine in July 2017 to work in Ukrainian Parliament. I started to tweet about the revolution on the first day, 21st November, and by the 23rd I was actually out there reporting. In the first days I gathered a few thousand followers, and this kept increasing as time went on. By the end of Maidan I had 12 000. I knew the importance of social media as I had studied the Arab Spring and the impact Social Media had then. On the 24th November other people began to join in on the political demonstration. When I checked my Facebook feed I saw people writing slogans like ‘Ukraine is Europe’ but the problem was that they were writing in Russian or Ukrainian. I realised that I needed to write in a way that the whole world would understand, so I began tweeting in English.
 
DOM- Do you think the revolution wouldn’t have succeeded without Social Media?
 
K- Maidan is a modern type of Revolution. There were no clear political leaders. The opposing leaders to the government weren’t the leaders of the revolution. So instead the political conscience of the people grew and the violence came about because political leaders couldn’t control the crowd. No one saw them as positive revolution figures.
 
There’s an example to show how well social media was used. In the middle of the night on 11th December, riot police stormed the crowd a Maidan. There weren’t many people in the crowd at that point, only a few thousand, not enough to hold of the police. People started writing on social media, encouraging people to come down for support. By the morning 11 000 people were on Maidan, successfully defending the protestors from the police. Social media took the place of the media, to spread the message. Organising and informing people instantly. It also acted as a mobilisation service as well as organisation. People were offering free taxi rides/ lifts to Maidan by writing on Facebook and Twitter. Or they wrote informing people on necessary supplies, like warm clothes or medical.
 
D- What role did the violence play?
 
K- Politicians had been bad in mobilising people and didn’t give the right lesson. Maidan grew stronger the more violent it got. The most stupid think Yanukovych did was order the violence. All control was lost.
 
D- Are you glad of the violence?
 
K- No of course not. It was the worst thing I experienced. I had been at Maidan all the time. On the 21st January the first person was shot. He was a protestor shot in the heart by a sniper. Many of the protestors had weapons. I saw knives but I didn’t see any guns. By the end of February more and more people had weapons, but it was nothing compared to the riot police.
 
D- Did the revolution do more harm than good?
 
K- Maidan or not Maidan, it was inevitable. It was a reaction of the people against all the bad things in Ukraine. The stupidity of politicians and oligarchs led to it, and the failure of signing the EU agreement was the final drop.
 
D- Were social media figures, like yourself, the leaders of the revolution?
 
K- I’ve never thought of myself in that way. I was a channel of information to the outside world. During all the interviews and articles I was thinking, am I doing enough for the revolution? There was no specific person who was a leader. It was the people together. The mistake was not moving and supporting one political force to take the place. We didn’t have one party, which channelled the political views of Maidan. There were many different parties, and that is what made us weak.
 
D- In the bigger sense, do you think Maidan opened the decide between East and West? Did it lead to the war?
 
K- No, this is propaganda. It lead to a moment of weakness in Ukraine, which Russia exploited. Documents that were revealed after the annexation of Crimea, that showed Russia had a plan all along. The instability caused by the change of power was used by Russia. It was really obvious that it was Russian propaganda. They said that the revolution and activism led to war, but they were doing this to squash activism. In this part of Ukraine, memories of WW2 are still very strong and war is considered the worst possible thing.
 
Personally for me it was like the ‘Tale of Two Cities”. “It was the best of times, it was the worst of times”. After the shootings I had a mental breakdown and the mental trauma of the shootings overshadowed the success of Maidan. I used to cry when talking about it, but I learnt to separate the final three days [when the shootings took place] from the rest of Maidan, and now I think it was beautiful; a sign of solidarity and brotherhood. It’s something both motivating and painful. We have no right to forget about it and no right to stop. Revolutions can also be a sign of political immaturity in a country and it’s hard to initiate change in politicians. Ukraine needs active politicians, we have no right to stop reforming Ukraine to get it closer to the values of Maidan.
 
When the war started, I went back to Poland, but I continued to report on Donbas. I was working in the European parliament as my own personal way of not giving up.
 
D- Were the people in Kiev anti the revolution, and why?
 
K- Yes of course. Obviously with any event there are people actively supporting and actively against. There were people outside Maidan who were paid to hold anti-Maidan demonstrations. But most people were in support. It relied on people who weren’t actively demonstrating to donate money, supply food etc.
 
During Maidan, I knew I was physically safe only in Maidan. Because when I went home there were these paid thugs beating and kidnapping supporters, to create the feeling of fear. We still have more than 200 people missing.
 


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KIEV INTERVIEWS 5- VIKTOR

16/2/2018

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Viktor, 26, is a strong figure in the activist scene and works for The Reanimation Package of Reforms, an organisation aiming to introduce more democratic, transparent government reforms. He is an extremely confident man, with forward looking plans, although one contact who introduced us described him as being nationalistic.He played an active role in Maidan, despite studying abroad at the same time.

DOM- Why do you think people are in support of Russia?
​
VIKTOR- I don’t think, after four years, there are people left willing to join Russia. Since these four years, things have been muddled, you don’t even know who is your friend or not.
 
D- Where you involved in the revolution?
 
V- Yes and no. I was doing my masters degree in France. On the first day they [Yanukovych] didn’t sign the EU agreement I gathered together the Ukrainian students in my university and other Ukrainian students in Brussels. We held the first EuroMaidan in Brussels. I wasn’t in Kiev when the first shootings began, but I tried to organise protests across Europe with Ukrainians- expats, immigrants, anyone. During winter break I went back to Kiev and joined in with the protest then. It was peaceful when I was there. From December 15th to January 20th we protested in front of the courthouse when they tried to punish protestors. We held a demonstration in Luk’yanivska, as people were still being held since December 1st. They had been beaten and held for no reason, so we went there to cheer them up. Some were released in January and some only after the revolution had ended. Officially the seven of them were arrested for resisting arrest, but in a video you can see the riot police just chasing and beating the protestors. I can say if Yanukovych ordered this, but all the police were under his control.
 
D- How did social media play a role for you?
 
V- It helped me be involved in the revolution. From the first post, people wanted to contribute. The least people did was like and share. It was the fastest way to spread information, to organise and the government couldn’t control it. It also helped you to know if your close ones were OK. Plus in Europe we made a Facebook page for EuroMaidan in Brussels and Lille. It shows that many people are involved and it’s not just a one-man show.
 
Some politicians gave some words a bad name. For example the current government party is called Solidarity. Yanukovych used ‘Improvement’ a lot in his speeches. These words have no lost their meaning.
 
D- What did you hope from the revolution?
 
V- My plan in 2013 was to study abroad to get an internship and experience to get back to Ukraine for the 2015 elections. I knew Yanukovych couldn’t be ruler forever. But then the revolution started and my hopes were broken. My hopes were to get rid of the regime. But I wasn’t thinking about what could replace it instead. My current work was created in 2014, at the end of Maidan. Maidan stood against Yanukovych and corruption, but it didn’t have a plan. My company was there to offer a difference, to stand for something, not just against. Now I am always looking for a solution. There's a difference between now and the Orange Revolution. People thought there job was done after the protest. This time people have positive plans and so I have hope. It’s getting harder and harder to push for change as the current government is getting used to our techniques, so now we have to use different methods to advocate change. We need to educate people to fight for their rights and encourage them to make change on a local level. We need to be prepared for the next elections, as this is our window of opportunity.
 
The revolution was definitely positive. This war would of happened sooner or later. Ukraine is in Russia’s field of interest and Ukraine was not made to stay there forever. We became independent from the Soviet Union without bloodshed. Empires don’t usually let go so easily. Maidan was a trigger for them but war was the last resort for Russia. They annexed Crimea to show Ukraine that they could not survive without Russia. The revolution, annexation and war placed everything on the spot where it was supposed to be. For many people it’s part of nation building. Who do you associate with? Maidan was the trigger to answer this question, it wasn’t Russia.
 
I don’t know if people want to be part of the EU. Europe doesn’t see Ukraine as joining EU. I don’t see it as a good. I would prefer an independent Ukraine with no corruption and a stable economy over joining the EU. But it can be an indicator at some point. Standing up for European values and respect for human rights. The EU flags all over Kiev indicate our direction. It has symbolic meaning.
 
Our organisation is very well respected. John Kerry met us first before going to the president. We have a strong image of truth. Our work is respected by many partners as reliable and trustworthy.
 
D- Why do you think people in Donbas want to be independent? 
 
V- If you look at why they claim independence, it’s basically 25 years of brainwashing through media. For me they are claiming independence voluntarily. The people that resisted had to escape and I know some people who were bullied or threatened with death for their pro Ukrainian position. I know there are western authors saying it’s a civil war and they are fighting for their freedom, but in 2014 it was clear that Russia was involved. I’m disappointed that the West doesn’t do fact checking and rely on Russian sources. If you look at developments of protests in April 2014, when East Ukrainian cities started putting Russian flags on government buildings, it wasn’t natural development. For me, its not part of Ukraine fighting for independence. It’s an external threat that has become a war.
 
D- Will it be united again?
 
V- I will not give up on these people and this land. We also work on displaced university students who had to escape terroristic groups. [Groups of Russian militants, Donetsk republic, and the Ukrainians trained to fight for them]
Displaced universities will be a key to reconciliation. 18 universities, 50 000 students and 10 000 professors displaced. They moved and showed their loyalty to Ukraine. We need to change Ukraine, to show the manipulated people what we have built, even during the conflict, to prove what we can do if we are united.  It’s hard for Ukrainians to trust each other, due to Soviet times. They told us e had to turn in our family if they said something bad about Stalin. Before that we were a close farming community. Reform is about bringing back this trust of each other. It’s not just about the age gap when it comes to tolerance. It’s about education, awareness and where you were raised.
 
D- Were the protestors unarmed?
 
V- I cannot say definitely, as I was away I have read that they were both armed and unarmed. My view is that when your being shot at, you better arm yourself. If people did have weapons I can understand that because you want to be protected. The protestors were definitely not the ones who started it. There were armed thugs hired by Yanukovych patrolling the streets, beating people who had Pro Ukrainian flags and ribbons. He had his own group under protection.

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KIEV INTERVIEWS 4- Oleksandra

17/1/2018

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Oleksandra, 25, is originally from Donetsk but had to move because of the war. We met in a café in the trendy, student part of town, Podil. She told me how she left her home in June, before the military actions in July. However, there had already been the devastating battle at the airport. Unlike fellow Donetsk native, Sergei [interview 2], Oleksandra was in support of Maidan, and was actively involved in the protests.  
 

DOM- How do you feel about the revolution?
 
OLEKSANDRA- It was worth it over all. But there were questions I kept asking myself. A lot more work has to be done, as there is still corruption. The revolution was just for one time, but it needs to continue. Most of Ukraine changed afterwards and people started to understand the country a lot more, and began to look after it. They realised if they want good stuff they need to work for it on different levels. It united Ukrainians. Not necessarily the country, but the people, even those who had left to other countries. There are few people who are fully ethnically Ukrainian, but it’s more about the feeling of being a part of Ukraine. It is about being a citizen.
 
There is a lot of Russian propaganda, specifically saying that if you [identify as] Ukrainian you are a nationalist. When the Ukrainian army circled the towns of Donetsk, the Russians spread the message that the Ukrainian army are Nazis. But this is ridiculous, because they are just protecting their country! Protecting the areas they could protect. The Russians also said that the Ukrainian army are being overly aggressive and saying things like they were purposefully killing babies.
 
D- Do independent fighters in Donetsk say they are Russian or Ukrainian?
 
O- I don’t know. I think some say they are Russian. But it was never an issue before 2014. It was never even spoken about. It was a forced idea by Russia. I had lived there my whole life and never had an issue. A lot of people watched Russian TV and the Russian media was using this to scare people.
 
In 2014 pro-Ukrainian activists had demonstrations in Donetsk. It was made up of students and journalists, none of whom had any weapons. Meanwhile pro-Russian demonstrators had weapons and even looked like criminals. They attacked the pro- Ukrainians. In March, a young a young journalist was killed during a pro- Ukrainian demonstration, by a pro-Russian activist who stabbed him to death. The police did nothing. He was the first death in Donetsk. The demonstrations were peaceful and sincere. We had a chance to voice our opinions, unlike everyone in Crimea. But the other side was very aggressive.
 
D- What did you do in the demonstrations?
 
O- We were walking and singing, “Donetsk is Ukraine”. But we were often attacked by pro-Russians and so people started to become afraid to show their Ukrainian side. People were even attacked outside their homes and work.
 
D- Were some pro-Russians non-violent and had a valid reason for supporting Russia?
 
O- Maybe a few. But there is this perception that everything is better elsewhere. Like, my pension is bad in Ukraine, but it would be better in Moscow. But this was all word of mouth and not based in fact. Some people I know actually went to Russia as refugees, thinking it would be paradise. But when they arrived, they didn’t have many opportunities and they realised life wasn’t so good out there.
 
D- Was their a big divide?
 
O- Yes. But there were many people in between. Many older people started to become pro-Russian. Usually people had concrete views, either pro-Russian or pro-Europe, but now most people are confused because promises haven’t been followed through. The self-proclaimed government don’t have the opportunity to move forward, and so their support is getting smaller. They tried to instigate taxes and business but it didn’t work out. I hear from friends that lots of shops and businesses are closed. It’s half alive, half dead. It’s become militarised too. You have to be home at 10pm and there’s people walking around the street with weapons.
 
D- Who are these people?
 
O- Rebel fighters, militia, Russian fighters who claim they are not Russian. The Green Men.[These are soldiers who mysteriously appeared out of nowhere, without any indication of what country they came from. Most suspect they are Russian, although the Kremlin denies this, claiming they are local self-defence groups.] We think they were hired from Chechnya.
 
D- Is the war dying out?
 
O- I don’t know. I think locals just want peace. But broadly it depends on Russian strategy. I don’t think its dying out, I think its just in a quiet phase. We don’t know the mind-set of people planning it all. It’s hard to predict. I don’t think it will end so easily. There are stories about people negotiating with captives. Although Ukraine agreed to release their captives, in line with the Minsk Agreement, the Donetsk People's Republic agreed but never followed through, because they don’t have permission from Russia. But Russia says they’re not involved, so I don’t think it’s going to end soon.
 
D- That’s how you see Ukraine in the next few years?

​O- Sort of. It’s kind of like with Georgia and Abkhazia, or Moldova and Transnistria, but its different because of the open war.

D- Do you think Ukraine will unite again?
 
O- In time, yes. But I’m thinking optimistically, because I still have things at home I want to get! [She laughs]
 
D- How were you treated when you first came to Kiev?
 
O- I was treated well. I have family here, so I didn’t feel it was unwelcoming. But there are stories of people being mistreated or not being able to find a flat. I never had this problem. I do keep getting asked how come I know Ukrainian so well! But this is just a stereotype! [People from Donbas and Luhansk stereotypically only speak Russian] I think most young people can speak or understand Ukrainian. Some people in Western Ukraine hide the fact that they can speak Russian. But they understand. 

Outside the café, Oleksandra tells me how she has family still in Donetsk. Some people, it seems, just want to try and carry on living as normal a life as possible, even in very abnormal circumstances. She was speaking to me in such a cheery manner, that I found it quite surreal compared to the heavy tones of previous interviews. She even smiled happily as I took her photo! 
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KIEV INTERVIEWS 3- Valeriy

17/1/2018

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I meet Valeriy, a former soldier who had been fighting in Donbas for 3 years. He apologises for his bad English and tells me that he only learnt it after trekking through Europe a few months beforehand. He told me how he had walked all around Europe and spoke to people on the way, which taught him enough conversational English to get by. It was a strange thing to do, and I wonder if it was a coping mechanism, and to see the rest of the continent he felt most attached to. Unfortunately Valeriy was also very ill when I was speaking to him and we had to cut the interview short after he endured multiple trips to the toilet to throw up..

VALERIY- 24.
 
DOM- Did you think the war was going to be big?
 
VALERIY- When the war started we thought it would be finished in 3 months max. But it is still going on.
 
D- Why did you want to fight?
 
V- it is my country. It is my problem. I must stop terrorists in Russia from entering Ukraine. In the first year of war it was very… it was original war, very intensive. After 2015, 2016 and now… (He shows me a video on his phone of a battle with tanks shooting towards a building)
It’s a raid, you understand? We attack and win against terrorists [Rebel fighters in Donbas]. But when we start to win, Russian soldiers entered Ukraine and started beating us. They attack, we [went] back.
 
D- Why do you think Donbas wants to be independent??
 
V- In Donbas stay many Russian people. The Donbas people cannot think. They cannot make decisions because Russian military are staying in Donbas. It’s a hybrid war. [A term I hear mentioned several other times.]
 
D- When you talk, are you speaking in Russian or Ukrainian?
 
V- Ukrainian. Only Ukrainian.
 
D- But you understand Russian?
 
V- Of course. It is very cool because in war they can’t understand us but we can understand them.
 
D- Why do you prefer to speak in Ukrainian?
 
V- Because I am Ukrainian man! It is my language.
 
D- How do you feel about the Kiev revolution?
 
V- Revolution will be in mentality. This revolution in Kiev is the beginning. But after. It must be in the mentality of whole people of Ukraine.
 
D- So it was good?
 
V- I hope so. 

Valeriy calls up a high positioned friend in the police force, who will be able to drive him back home after he is forced to go to the toilet once more. We end the interview there and I hoped to see him again, unfortunately time didn't allow us to. But I was able to interview another soldier later on. 
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KIEV INTERVIEWS 2- Sergei

16/1/2018

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I met Sergei, an artist from Donetsk, immediately after Artem. The talk was very different, and Sergei was quite anti-Maidan. He was an eccentric character, and our interview was cut short due to the early closure of the subway station. Thus half of it was conducted weaving through the night time streets of Kiev in an attempt to make it to the last train. I didn't manage to capture everything he said, but here are his reasons for not supporting the revolution.

SERGEI, 30- Imagine Ukraine and Russia as Great Britain and Ireland, except Britain was bloodier in keeping Ireland and Scotland under control [than Russia]. Ukraine was traditionally a village society and culture, and the Russian Empire built many cities in Ukraine. I lived in Donetsk until I was 20. Afterwards, I moved to Kiev to study at the Art Academy, and have lived here for 10 years. Nobody expected the current situation to escalate this way. We watched what happened to Yugoslavia, but didn’t expect it to happen here. We were wrong. I knew the history so did not support Ukraine or Russia, but both sides thought I was against them. I knew that Ukraine is a territory that was always under control of some empire. Indeed, Ukraine appeared to be independent until the gall of the Soviet Union. Before then it was just several regions. Lenin created several states that were free to leave if they wanted, but Stalin didn’t support this idea. In many ways, Ukraine was united by Lenin, and Ukraine needs to thank Lenin for this and Kristoff for the Crimea. Before, Crimea was part of the Russian empire but they gave it to Ukraine for simplicity. It made no difference, since it was all USSR; one country. All of Western Ukraine is thanks to Stalin. The Soviet Union created republics like Lithuania, Poland etc. Without the gifts of the Soviet Union, Ukraine would be a lot smaller. At the end of the Soviet Union it was the biggest it had ever been in its existence, since land that once belonged to Poland etc. was given to Ukraine. During the 16th century there were two banks to Ukraine: West, which was under control of Poland, and East, which was under control of Moscow. And now it is the same story. The differences in mentality on the borders are the same as the start of the 20th century when the Russian empire collapsed, and the Ukrainian National Republic existed from 1917 to 1921. The country has collapsed in the same way now as it did at the start of the 20th century. Donbas has always been a working region, supported by the Soviets, and now it is supported by Russia. 


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KIEV INTERVIEWS 1- Artem

16/1/2018

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I met Artem in a Cuban themed bar in central Kiev. He immediately started discussing EuroMaidan...

A: I enjoyed the revolution and it’s atmosphere, it was clean and friendly.  We called it the Revolution of Dignity. Maidan was supposed to represent the ideas of Europe, and European solidarity. It was about cultural progress and getting away from Soviet culture. But it was actually the most perfect representation of Soviet ideas! Everyone brought what they could to Maidan and took what they needed. There were groups who sent out things that were needed. They fought with communism against Russian ideology. Ever skill came together, doctors helped the injured, and handymen built barricades. It was the perfect example of communism in a good way. I felt safe in Maidan. When I was there, I felt like Kiev belonged to me, it was a feeling I never had before. I cherished it. It was a natural way of living, you could lay down anywhere, and there was even security which made sure no drunk people were around. (Before the shooting) People were really showing that the protest was for a good cause, and kept it clean, even picking up trash. But when the violence started, I didn’t dully join in as I value my life. I watched everything on live stream, via Facebook and Youtube. I wanted to be one of those people fighting and join in. But it’s easier to die for a cause than to live for a cause. This is the mantra I live by. But I respect the sacrifice those people made.
 
My TV crew and I were walking around interviewing people, one day before Maidan, on the anniversary of the Orange Revolution. Everyone said there was no way there would there be another protest, as the result from the last one was minuscule. They made a mistake once and wouldn’t make it again. This programme we made didn’t even air! 

Artem was clearly pro-Maidan, but I wanted to see his view on the current conflict in the Eastern region of Donbas. Whilst the pro-European Maidan protests were taking place, a pro-Russian separatist group in Donbas, the Donetsk People's Republic, sprung up as a reaction against the Maidan protestors. They wanted to create an independent state, separate from the rest of Ukraine but closely aligned with Russia instead. 

D-  Why do Donetsk want to be associated with Russia? 


A- We have a meme where this granny wants to die in the Soviet Union. Lots of old people have this romantic view of the USSR. It was powerful and stopped blitzkrieg. Logically, it’s all about borders. West Ukraine has business in Poland, Slovakia etc. East has business with Russia. We are between two major superpowers; the EU and Russia. We are like a bridge. I think because of all this shit they should just go to Russia. But it’s funny because Russia doesn’t want them; they are not economically viable like Crimea. Historically there has always been Central/West and East Ukraine and each president has been favoured by one side. In terms of language, East thought Russia should be the native language, whilst West thinks Ukrainian should be.
 
So there’s been tension for a while; in the presidency, the language and even football teams. Russia said that Kiev was being over run by Nazis that are coming to kill Russians, and need to protect their government. Meanwhile Russia bribed military to enter and it was easy because everyone was already barricaded in, terrified. Russia made everyone [in East Ukraine] scared and convinced them that they always hated Ukrainian speakers. 

Being Ukrainian isn’t about territory or language. It’s about being a diverse and loving family. I blame eastern Ukrainians for being absurd and too scared of Nazis, which are actually really small in number. They think Kiev makes the rules and mistreats them. That is bullshit! We saw some people who fled from the eastern regions to Kiev, in expensive cars and even brought flats! It’s obvious that there’s a lot of local corruption, which gets blamed on the Central Ukraine government. Every third wealthy person in Kiev is probably from the Donbas region.
 
My main idea was that there was healthy tension between the areas. But because of language and corruption, this increased. We never wanted to cut ties with Russia, we see them as a brother, but consider ourselves European. Basically I think our government and the Russian government overreacted. Then the current president came along. He’s a businessman who claimed to know stuff, but people ended up not liking him. I think we can work towards something, but you need leverage to do good stuff. Maybe he wants to do good things, or maybe he just likes playing with Ukrainians. In the end there’s never a good candidate. It’s either better or worse. Like in America.
 
Russia is paranoid of America and used these protests to destabilise Ukraine and to make sure that the US doesn’t build a military base nearby. They aimed to destabilise Ukraine for the next 20 years, enforcing fear into the Eastern part and then using that moment to annex Crimea. Crimea was always the main target as it’s good territory. They used the troubles in Donbas to make Crimean’s scared, so that it was easier to annex it. 
​
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